POLITICS: President Buhari Is On Course Says Haruna Sae'ed Kajuru

Honourable Haruna Sae’ed Yunusa Kajuru, is one gentleman whose antecedents speak greatly about his personality, integrity and accountability.

Honourable Haruna Sae’ed Yunusa Kajuru, is one gentleman whose antecedents speak greatly about his personality, integrity and accountability.

Having served as Accountant General of Kaduna, under three administrations for eleven years; the longest ever in the history of the state, Haruna Sae’ed moved to create a legacy at the Nigeria Extractive Intelligence and Transparency Initiative, NEITI.

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Contesting for the exalted seat of Governor in 2011, under the platform of the Congress for Progressive Change, CPC which had the incumbent President Muhammadu Buhari as its flagbearer then, Sae’ed lost to Patrick Yakowa of the PDP but went to court to fight for his mandate and believes that powers that be, in the corridors of power then, scared of his doggedness and resolute spirit, ensured otherwise.

NAIJNEWSALERT brings to you, Haruna Sae’ed Yunusa Kajuru, an ally and strong believer in the ability of President Muhammadu Buhari to deliver Nigeria.      

NNA:  This administration recently celebrated the Democracy Day and its 365 days in office but Nigerians have insisted that there is really nothing to celebrate.

As a stakeholder and staunch believer in the abilities/capabilities of the government of the day led by President Muhammadu Buhari and how would you assess the government so far?

SAE’ED:  It is difficult for me to say whether there are reasons or not. For one, the rights of Nigerians to govern themselves are supposed to be there. Having gotten the governance away from the military to civilian, I don’t think it is an issue per say as regards celebrating the Democracy Day, rather, what Nigerians should be thinking of is; what have we achieved after getting the rights to govern ourselves? What have we learnt? What have we not learnt and what should we do?

We have had 16 years of the PDP regime and these have been quite an uneventful years and we have been moving in the wrong direction which kept getting worse by each passing day until this government came in. So, you can imagine that and, it is not just having the civilians that have been weakening the system and making the system so poor, rather, it goes beyond that. The military era was one of terrible governance and it affected the system as they had no long term plans because, they never knew how long they were going to stay.

One question that should be addressed is, is the new government addressing the impunity and the cancerous corruption that has affected us? To me, the answer is yes, for sure. This government cannot in the first instance be looked upon as a corrupt government. There is a great departure from what obtained in the past. What happened in the past is being addressed in the way and manner recoveries are being made. It is a twin approach; stopping corruption and correcting the ills of the past, is the other milestone that we can talk about.

Again, let us look at the issues of our dependence on a mono-economy. Oil has remained the major source of Nigeria’s income and foreign exchange earner as well. This government came with the promise to diversify the economy and to an extent, that has been put on the table with agriculture being given a new look. Attention is also being focused on the mining of solid minerals in a more sincere and honest manner in order to genuinely boost the economy. There is also a more conscious effort to ensure that our industries are brought back to stream.

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Joblessness, is another issue as in the past, you would never hear of an open employment even where we had the issue of the Immigration employment scandal that resulted in the loss of lives and yet, no employment. It was a scam. But now, we have opportunities this year alone as the police and the teaching sector have begun employment already. Also, some people are being assisted with loans to start businesses.

Again, one other issue that has been addressed by this government is security which is very paramount. We need to secure the country before we can manage it. As at today, the Nigerian boundaries have been secured. We now have a Nigerian state that had hitherto, been subjected to some losses in some states especially in the North east where about 14 LGs which were initially lost, recovered. Now all our boundaries have been secured. The integrity and sovereignty of the nation have been regained with the people back to their farms and even some of the IDPs gradually returning back to their respective homes.

The people of the North East are gradually returning back to their daily lives. Although we might have challenges here and there such as the Biafra agitation and that of the Niger Delta Avengers in the South-south, these are all threats that have political undertones. They are just expressions from persons who want to get attention from government as they have been getting it in a crooked way in the past and want to continue in the same order. By and large, security is now available and all we need do is to consolidate.

Another issue was the loss of integrity by the nation before the international community. Nigerians had been soiled and called bad names all over. But, because of the new leadership we now have, people and nations now have a new confidence in us and are willing and ready to do business with us due to the commitment, transparency of the new leadership in place.

NNA: You rate this government so high despite the obvious and glaring facts that it has come under serious condemnations.

On the issue of agriculture, we learnt that in the 2016 Appropriation Budget, a paltry sum was allocated to that sector which experts have decried as grossly abysmal and inadequate for a sector that is expected to take over from the oil sector as the nation’s revenue generator. Also, education; the world over, enjoys great attention but again, the budgetary allocation is nothing to write home about. With all of these, you seem to want to score the government high and I don’t know the yardstick with which you arrived at this.

SAE’ED:  Anything that happens to a sector does not just happen to the sector because of one budgetary allocation or the other.

The budgetary allocation is a promise to spend such and such amount of money in certain order. It does not say everything about it. The thing that has happened in the past was the issue of importation of agricultural products from other countries who had subsidized agriculture and who could afford to export for foreign exchange to our country and make bumper collections from what they sent to us, whether they are sub-standard, expired items or produce.

So, when you take a policy for instance, in trying to encourage rice farming by discouraging rice importation, you have helped the rice farmer.

Again, when you open the sector in a way that machineries for the processing of and the milling of rice which has not been quite so in the past, then you have helped the rice farmer. When you make land and inputs available, truly directly to the farmer, you have again, helped the farmer. So, these can come, not in the way that has been happening in the past where you allocate huge sums of money that would line the pockets of some people. The sincerity here is that you can budget for less but achieve much more because of the policy.

So, these are things that must be appreciated; the sincerity of government and the approach the government takes in handling these aspects. When it comes to education area, yes and no. You now have a country where people are more stable. That is education itself. Let us take the North east for instance where children were driven out of school because of insecurity as their parents had to flee their homes. That is complete eradication of education itself. When normalcy is restored, there will be an improvement in health, agriculture, education including the well-being of the persons around. When you have people migrating en-masse from one area, it destabilizes the events of the place they have migrated to as, it will result rationing of resources. Yes, there will be more in terms of inflow but spending will become less per household.

Again, when you have a policy that people have confidence there will be less and less strike in the university and schools, that stability and conscious planning and invariably bring about general growth.

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So, I disagree with those saying that we have problems with agriculture or education. The truth is; you cannot see the result overnight. Let us take agriculture for instance. You cannot see the result in less than one year because there must be full farming circle before you begin tom see real change.  People must begin to appreciate that they have more value for their produce than they ever had which to the farmer is very important.

Of course, the consumers will now be forced to pay more for the same produce unlike in the past. However, as the production increases so will the prices come down to a level that the marginal gains is just be enough to continue producing.

NNA: In other words, are you of the opinion that the budgetary allocations to both the education and agricultural sectors in the 2016 Appropriation Budget adequate enough to take these two vital sectors from their present positions to a greater height?

SAE’ED:  By and large, if you just look at the quantum on a year to year basis. What I have said before also applies here. It is not every allocation in the past that has been judiciously used. First, you have a budget that was never implemented. In most cases, the areas that were implemented were areas that were to be stolen. You had even capital allocations that were in the real sense never executed although payments were made but the real capital works were never done.

So, this is not what to expect from this regime. When you look at the amount and try to gauge that this amount is inadequate for country such as Nigeria, then don’t stop there. Look at the envelop; the budget envelop whether within that envelop if what is allocated is sufficient enough or not. You must not run away from the fact that, over time, the recurrent expenditure in Nigeria has been growing and growing and what the government is now doing is trying to block all those leakages but, in the first instance, you must believe that they exist before you run away from that fact.

So, you have to first understand that, there are leakages and block the leakages and then, you begin to increase, over time, the amount that are being allocated from the savings that are realized. And, this invariably, goes to other sectors as well.

I don’t look at just what amount but how efficiently it has been utilized. The utilization is what is an issue and it is this utilization issues that causes the corruption that we are now trying to eradicate or reduce to the barest minimum and therefore, add value to what we are trying to achieve.                                            

NNA: Do you share in the notion that Nigeria is sitting on a keg of gunpowder, taking into cognizance the issues of insecurity in the Northeast, the Niger Delta, the Biafra agitation and the likes? How would you advise the government?

SAE’ED: A mix of approaches have to take place. When you have a set of criminals doing all sorts of things, you don’t just fold your hands and say let us negotiate. You have to find a way to apprehend the culprits; punish them and be sure that they are dealt with. You don’t allow criminals to continue to be on the rampage as if the country is made of lawlessness alone. That aspect has to be dealt with. 

On the issue of agitation, it has to be taken seriously and divorced from criminal activities. It needs to be taken seriously because in every society, there are issues that affect everyone. That is governance.

You have to understand that it has to do with the needs of a people and provide those needs in a way that you don’t short-change others in other areas.

It is a mix of the two. You punish those that have done criminal acts and you look at the agitation of the people agitating and know what is right and see how you can best meet their yearnings. This has to be so. In a whole, I don’t believe that there is an imminent danger ahead of us in the sense that, these are mild issues as Nigerians are peace loving people and they want to be Nigerians and be in Nigeria and hold the Nigerian passport all over wherever they go.

For those doing things wrongly, is an expression and believes that the society is not going to punish them because; they believe that they have been unfairly treated. But then, we have to understand that Nigeria is above personal interest.

NNA: you talked about employment opportunities abounding that have been created by this administration. However, figures available in the public domain says otherwise with the unemployment figures soaring every day.

SAE’ED: There are two sources of employment; the Private Sector driven and then, the Public Sector driven. Any nation of the world, the Public sector provides minimal employment. Majorly, employment comes from the self-employment:- Private Sector driven where people run their businesses in the form of corporations, partnerships, agencies, artisans, skilled and unskilled.

All of these are people who believe that they can employ themselves better and they all help to develop the economy. So, what the government is doing, by and large is to stimulate and provide the basic manpower to move the economy; to do business with government and at the end of the day, it is presumed that certain infrastructure or an environment is created conducive enough for those players in the private sector, to come in and do business and play their role by getting people employed.

Either you are employed by yourself simply or, you need an assistant or, you even come together and have a corporation. Or, people are employed in trust in a fiduciary kind of relationship for them to run the businesses on behalf of the real owners. In the end, what we can say for sure is that, this government of the day, is providing the enabling environment in form of security, in the form of getting back the infrastructure, getting people to feel that Nigeria is safe enough to come and invest either by local or foreign investors and again, to provide the necessary materials; be it agricultural, solid minerals and what have you.

In the end, you can be sure that more people will be employed and allow the government to just stimulate and allow those who have been out of work to be gainfully employed.

NNA: (Cuts in) But, reports available states that the policies of this government have been unfavourable to the Private sector which has resulted in the down-sizing of the workforce.

Could you address this?

SAE’ED: It will be difficult for me to analyze any given situation without knowing which of the policies that is said not favourable to the investment climate. Government, like any other in the world, has to be helpful to issues that affect people and economy.

As regards the financial sector, I don’t know if you are talking about the exchange rate regime or, the policies governing the banking industry or the fiscal policies.

When we talk about the banking policies, you have a complete institution (CBN) that is free in a sense; free in the sense that, it is under Nigerian economy, still under the governance process which must not be allowed to derail in the country completely.

So, we have many policies there but, majorly, the areas people hammer on is; “devalue the naira”. But, devaluation done in a free economy such as ours, no matter how it is completely free or, it is not free.

Here, you can only talk of the fact that we have a dual regime; one that that is free and one that is run by government (the Central Bank of Nigeria) at a fixed exchange rate mechanism. Thus, while there are aspects that the rate is allowed to float and the other, the government is funding, with its own resources, certain aspects of inputs used and some foreign donated expenditure in education, defence, Foreign Service and Health.

So, to me in a away, the way people have been agitating that; “devalue the naira” and of course, majority of the people are in favour of “don’t devalue the naira”. If you devalue the naira, everything will multiply overnight and of course, limiting the usage of foreign exchange to certain imports to naira is another thing which I believe is right and of course, does not in any way kill the economy as the people are talking about.

In most other areas that is, the fiscal regime, you have allocation of resources that the government is doing; one through the budget and through the other aspects of balancing imports or, trying to allocate, regulate in terms of “import taxes” but of course, so far, I don’t think there has been any increase in taxes. 

What is happening is to ensure that within the bracket everybody pays.

I don’t think it is proper for anybody who is expected to pay some form of tax 

not to pay. That is a country that we should have, not the other way.

So, I don’t think there is any (emphasis) government policy, be it financial or fiscal that is affected in the real sense except pricing that you can talk about. 

That is, the increased foreign exchange price. There are two prices; one can say that are of serious concerns that have affected the pockets of the individuals and corporate organizations because we have to pay higher; Energy and Power.

The reasons behind the change of pricing are very important for people to understand. In the case of petrol, you know what the scam has been. In the areas of subsidy, we don’t want to go back to that era again. Forever! We believe that over time, these prices will come down. If we have more incentives to help independent or private refineries and allow things to be refined locally and even if we are importing, we know you are importing because you know the margin you will make and not the other way round, depending on government to do things.

Sometimes, there are no imports but monies are paid. Again, of course, the price of power is up and we have cried about it but, at the end of the day, we hope that will be addressed leading to an increase in supply and have uninterrupted power supply. If we do have that, then we can be sure of making great savings from not paying to power our generators and improved production.

NNA: Let me take you back a bit. During one of previous chats, you sounded very enthusiastic and very confident about your party’s abilities but now, you don’t seem to sound so sure.

Again, considering the promises made to Nigerians, many had assumed it was going to be a magical thing. People are therefore of the opinion that, this government has further impoverished the people and made the country worse off than they met it.

Sir, what is your take?

SAE’ED: All the issues and points you have raised, I beg to disagree. One, I have never changed my approach in trying to stay with the government. 

At least, at the national level, it is doing very well; excellently well within the limited resources we have found ourselves. And, the central government can do better with much resource. But, that does not mean when certain things are not right. I should be dogmatic about it and I should say everything is right.

There are no exceptions, every government can do right in one sense and do wrong in another sense, depending on what is available before it in terms of resources, space and time.

So, these are the issues and I have not changed anything. I said, on the basis of the promises made by the party’s (APC) campaign team during the President (then the aspiring President), nothing, in that order, have changed.

Like I said, they have done very well even where they had to change their style. 

Of course, government has to evaluate areas that things have changed. The first instance, “there would be no subsidy”. Yes, government has said no subsidy. Pricing is an issue that has changed for now.

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Of course, you cannot run away from the fact that things are not the same and then want to hold on to that. You must find a solution to the problem. The solution at this point in time is to allow the market determine the cap. Still, people have not realized that but are already starting to see the benefits. There are areas the prices are below the cap pump price in some fuel stations.

For me to rate this govt, I would rate it very high. I still would not rate it anywhere low. So far so good, the journey has been excellent and of course, there is no journey that you don’t have some high and low levels. It is normal in human adventure; you cannot always have a clear surface. Sometimes it can be a down slope or uphill.

Such slopes are the things that would bring challenges during the journey. We are confident that things are good enough and it will continue to be better.

NNA: What about the effects of these policies of govt on the masses, especially the downtrodden?

SAE’ED:  The policies of government that brought about hardship in some aspects, in particular, the areas we have mentioned; increase in the pump price of petrol and increase in the unit price of power. These are two areas that should have brought hardship to the people that have a multiplier effect. When it comes to the pump price, everybody is a beneficiary or user in some sort because you either transport yourself, or transport goods or, you consume the transported goods and invariably, in a number of times, you find that the people have increased the price of their goods and their services. Then, in the case of power, things are the same because some people have to produce and pay for that energy.

So, they have to break that costs in order to arrive at their final selling price. Invariably, you find people being discomforted because of such increases in prices.

But, what is important is to have a country that is not for a few; a country that is for all. No one policy is meant for the enrichment of certain groups of people specifically targeted. The policies that are made are to keep a balanced playing field for everybody in the country. Not an import regime where people never imported anything but they came and asked for payment for nothing and asked for subsidy that they have not earned.

So, all these are the issues that you need to clear away. Don’t give or place somebody above others.

The policies of the govt of today are for all and not for selected people. That is what governance is all about. Do for all. Of course, some people will get it above others.

When we talked about the restriction of imports, the closure and payment for Duty and that has helped to increase the prices of imported items like rice. The same as the foreign exchange change in price has helped to increase the price of rice. Invariably, every consumer of foreign rice will have to pay, indeed including the consumer of local rice will have to pay more but, at the end, the producer of rice, that is the downtrodden person you referred to, who is producing rice before and getting nothing for it, is now getting something for it.

Now, he can count himself tomorrow, as one those upcoming rich people. And, that is how it is supposed to be. You will now begin to see the transformation as mansions will replace thatch houses in the rural areas. That is what development is all about. 

In the developed countries, you find some people that are very rich through farming but here, you don’t see farmers making anything. I am a farmer. I virtually lose mostly in my farm than doing other businesses but I continue to farm, persistently.

So, I hope we will change the policy and allow people make more money from farming than other areas. For instance, when I went to Saudi Arabia recently, I saw a lot of opportunities. Mangoes for instance that I farm so well, is being sold in high value. I am feeling that, how do I export from Nigeria to Saudi Arabia? That is an opportunity as I want to earn foreign exchange; not just foreign exchange but getting more value for my mangoes. Or, earn even locally here. I should be able to sell at high prices or higher income.

If nobody is corrupted, then everybody will be treated equally and govt can even afford to increase the basic pay; the #18,000 minimum wage because the theft is no longer there. If the minimum wage is improved upon, invariably the private sector will have to tow the same line. And, once more people are making more money; we will now have the middle class as opposed to what we were having before.

We were getting top rich for doing nothing but stealing our money and becoming super rich while the middle class is being killed. Middle class can only be made by artisans and the real working class; people earning good salary and some farmers who are able to produce for some good income.

NNA: Talking about promises made by the President and his party. There are some that have been reneged upon. Let us take for instance, “the recovery of loots” and then the revealing of the names of the alleged looters. By the promised date of may 29^th, 2016, he reneged but later passed the disclosure to the Hon. Minister of Information. Why are all of these coming up, sir?

SAE’ED: First of all, when a govt says “we shall”, that does not mean the mouth of the President must be the mouth piece. If the President says that, “we, this govt”, it does not mean the President must open his mouth. If the Minister of information says anything, it is not Lai Mohammed that is speaking. It is the govt that is speaking. If you say the information has not come out as at May 29^th, yes, there is an alteration in the date but who bears it does not matter. Whether Lai Mohammed or anybody else, it is the same govt. but, I would say, it is not yet an issue.

Being in government means certain things must take place differently. For instance, if there are no convictions, things would be based on assumptions. You may know that this person has stolen but you don’t have judgment against him.

So, it is not the same as saying that certain things have happened and to be based on assumption. From what we have seen so far is that people are being taken to court. In this situation, you find somebody has been given money; there are no lies about that. Out of $2.1b, somebody has paid millions. That, “I gave Mr. Y $500”. There is no lie about that. But, seeing in somebody’s account bank account or, in the registry of properties, houses and what have you and you assume automatically that the man has stolen. To me, you need to wait and get the judgment of the courts, not that you should let go of such information.

Of course, it will come to the public domain the moment the case goes to court that somebody is being taken to court based on A, B, C and D.

NNA: Sir, it reported that the past administration; the PDP led govt whose members are being tried, have claimed/alleged that the funds in question were campaign funds and that the APC have not declared how much they spent and therefore, people are saying it is more less a selective trial and persecution.

What is your take on this?

SAE’ED: I think there are two issues here. One is not to talk about the funding of campaigns and, the money spent on the campaigns.

This govt is not probing campaign funding but, is probing, for instance, money meant for “arms purchase”. You distribute monies meant for “arms purchase”. So, when somebody says he has taken it because it was given to him for electioneering campaigns, nobody is asking why you gave him to go and do campaigns. That is not the issue. Why did you give money meant for government for campaign? So, the source is the issue, not the end. Not the application for now.

Of course, we know there are offences which somebody else can deal with. How campaign funds are raised, how campaign funds are utilized is a whole set of different issues. Where we are today is that people have taken money belonging to the state and they have shared it out. And then, people who were given said it was for campaigns.

So, do you now understand the difference?

NNA: Let us come down to the state level where the government of the day is said to be doing well. As a stakeholder, how would you rate them?

SAE’ED: I would prefer to speak on the state of the nation at the national level.

NNA: Let us focus on the crisis within the APC at the state level where the governor and one of the state’s representatives in the Upper Chambers of the National Assembly who is also from the same party are embroiled in a battle of wits. 

What have been the attempts by stakeholders and leaders of the party to reconcile both of these elected leaders/officers?

SAE’ED: You see, this is what we have said a number of times; the absence of a party organization in the state. A great number of those in the Executive Committee of the party at the state level are no longer there. Prominent among them is the state chairman who is now the State’s deputy Governor while the Secretary of the party in the state is now a Commissioner. Quite a number of them. Nearly 80%  of the members of the state executive Committee are not there, so, you don’t have a vibrant party in the state for them to perform that kind of role. It has reached a situation where the govt decides who is a stakeholder and not the party itself.

So, if the government decides who is a stakeholder or, who is a top echelon in the hierarchy of the party, how can anybody come and say let us sit down and resolve issues affecting the party? The party is looking at things, either that the governor is not on the right or, that the Senator is not on the right side.

So, there has not been anything because there are no structures. By and large, we have said that it is one misnomer. The absence of the party’s executives has killed that window which we could have used to mediate between the two of them. But, it is very important for people to understand that differences do exist even within a political party, especially when we have a number of persons and parties coming together as a group, into one party.

There will be trying moments whereby, people will disagree, secretly or openly. There will also be a time when it gets obvious and some will leave the party or understand themselves and agreements are reached and people will respect each other, within the party.

NNA: Sir, it was recently revealed by the state governor that the deposits of Gold in Birnin Gwari local government of the state are quite huge and greater in quantum than what South Africa has.

What is your advice to the government of the day at the state level in order for these deposits to be properly harnessed?

SAE’ED:  All mineral deposits in the country are vested in the Federal realm and not for states wherever they are located be it in Kaduna or Katsina states. It is under the federal legislation and as such, it is only the federal government that can legislate on that matter.

What the state can do is to provide information and a conducive atmosphere that is germane.

So, the state government has very little to do in wooing investors beyond information and what not.

Two; for the quantum to be higher than that of South Africa, I don’t know where the governor got his data from. We have the same set up but the only difference was that one was a colony while the other was an apartheid regime. 

What I am trying to say is that, it is the same whites who came here that went to South Africa. If we had more deposits of gold than South Africa, two things would have happened. One is that they would have harnessed that gold before now and two; they would have delayed our independence because, the major criteria are that they would have delayed our independence just like South Africa.

I don’t know where the data came from so I would find it very difficult to advice but we have been advising that the federal government continuously pursues vigorously, the agenda of wooing investors to come and do business with us.

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